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Post by admin on May 14, 2012 7:37:09 GMT
I wonder who decides where air fences finish coming off the turn? After yesterday's tragic events; someone just catching the end of the air fence recently on Sky and Davy Watt hitting the fence hard coming off turn 4 at the EoES; I personally feel they are often too short.
I know that riders can get sucked into them but if there is still a chance of a rider straightening up then an extra length of air fence should be there.
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2012 12:41:42 GMT
I wonder who decides where air fences finish coming off the turn? After yesterday's tragic events; someone just catching the end of the air fence recently on Sky and Davy Watt hitting the fence hard coming off turn 4 at the EoES; I personally feel they are oten too short  I know that riders can get sucked into them but if there is still a chance of a rider straightening up then an extra length of air fence should be there This needs reviewing urgently in view of Lee's tragic crash - have long thought they seem to finish a tad to short coming out of the bends - Adam Shields also had a bad crash at the EoES few years ago but IIRC was he not fortunate enough to come down at the very end of the last section of air fence - a few more feet and who knows how much worse that would have been. Didn't the GPs experiment with some type of saftey barrier that ran all the way round the track - seem to remember Scott Nicholls in particular having a run in with it and I thought that was along a straight  Serious thought needs to be given to air fences by ALL tracks in this country now not just Elite ones imho. |
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Post by admin on May 14, 2012 13:17:20 GMT
I wonder who decides where air fences finish coming off the turn? After yesterday's tragic events; someone just catching the end of the air fence recently on Sky and Davy Watt hitting the fence hard coming off turn 4 at the EoES; I personally feel they are oten too short I know that riders can get sucked into them but if there is still a chance of a rider straightening up then an extra length of air fence should be there This needs reviewing urgently in view of Lee's tragic crash - have long thought they seem to finish a tad to short coming out of the bends - Adam Shields also had a bad crash at the EoES few years ago but IIRC was he not fortunate enough to come down at the very end of the last section of air fence - a few more feet and who knows how much worse that would have been. Didn't the GPs experiment with some type of saftey barrier that ran all the way round the track - seem to remember Scott Nicholls in particular having a run in with it and I thought that was along a straight Serious thought needs to be given to air fences by ALL tracks in this country now not just Elite ones imho. I meant Adam Shields, my mistake. I think that the air fences were all of the way round at first but the dangers of riders getting caught up (Lukas Dryml being the prime example) soon restricted them to the bends only I'd imagine? Only those who ride know what's safe but from my perspective air fences off the turns are too short? And now that we have them it's hard to imagine anyone riding round a track without them? That's old age and realisation of the sadly all too apparent dangers speaking though. |
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2012 14:29:05 GMT
This needs reviewing urgently in view of Lee's tragic crash - have long thought they seem to finish a tad to short coming out of the bends - Adam Shields also had a bad crash at the EoES few years ago but IIRC was he not fortunate enough to come down at the very end of the last section of air fence - a few more feet and who knows how much worse that would have been. Didn't the GPs experiment with some type of saftey barrier that ran all the way round the track - seem to remember Scott Nicholls in particular having a run in with it and I thought that was along a straight Serious thought needs to be given to air fences by ALL tracks in this country now not just Elite ones imho. I meant Adam Shields, my mistake. I think that the air fences were all of the way round at first but the dangers of riders getting caught up (Lukas Dryml being the prime example) soon restricted them to the bends only I'd imagine? Only those who ride know what's safe but from my perspective air fences off the turns are too short? And now that we have them it's hard to imagine anyone riding round a track without them? That's old age and realisation of the sadly all too apparent dangers speaking though. Ok - was struggling to recall the Watt incident you referred to - assumed I had not been there when that one happened due to holiday or whatever. |
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2012 16:27:17 GMT
I think Rico's crash happened someway down the back straight. I remember they introduced air fence for the whole circuit in the SWC first events and it caused a lot of crashes, Ermolenko had a bad one if I remember rightly. They got rid of them for the final.
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Post by admin on May 14, 2012 20:06:11 GMT
I think Rico's crash happened someway down the back straight. I remember they introduced air fence for the whole circuit in the SWC first events and it caused a lot of crashes, Ermolenko had a bad one if I remember rightly. They got rid of them for the final. Just watched it again and don't agree. Although it was on their second turn, if you think of the 4th bend at the EoES then it would have been possibly just short of the 15m mark behind the tapes IMO. Although an airfence in that area might have helped Adam Shields, it might have made the Richard Hall/Mark Lemon (2006) and Pedersen/Bjerre (2011) incidents worse than they were? |
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Post by admin on Jun 15, 2012 8:47:50 GMT
Another example last night I thought? I feared the worst for Buczkowski last night as he hit the fence very hard in heat 15. If the air fence went round about 15 yards further (up to where the speaker was behind the boards) then he'd have slammed into airfence |
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Post by Bigcatdiary on Jun 15, 2012 11:28:57 GMT
Another example last night I thought? I feared the worst for Buczkowski last night as he hit the fence very hard in heat 15. If the air fence went round about 15 yards further (up to where the speaker was behind the boards) then he'd have slammed into airfence Buzz is sore but apparently ok and riding at Berwick tomorrow as planned I was informed earlier. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2012 18:26:26 GMT
I think the air fences are fine where they are, if you look at any track after heat one you will see where the riders have come off the turns and gone close to the fence.
Rigsby is right in what he says about those incidents, they would have been worse had an air fence gone further down the straight, Bjerre for instance would have bounced straight back into Pedersen causing carnage, Adam Shields on the other hand may not have broken his back!
There must have been some disscussion between clubs because they all end around the same point.
The EoES is different too many in a way because of the speed riders get to, I have many pics of riders bouncing off the boards off bend two just past the air fence and the same off four, if the air fences went much further there there would be more accidents.
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Post by admin on Aug 21, 2012 6:49:15 GMT
I wonder who decides where air fences finish coming off the turn? After yesterday's tragic events; someone just catching the end of the air fence recently on Sky and Davy Watt hitting the fence hard coming off turn 4 at the EoES; I personally feel they are oten too short I know that riders can get sucked into them but if there is still a chance of a rider straightening up then an extra length of air fence should be there Glad to see that Pearson and Tatum caught up with this eventually (problem being that he missed the airfence said Tatum) after Stuart Robson's nasty spill at Brandon last night (20/8/12) - still say that they are at least a section too short coming off the bends. The plus points of increasing the length of the fence must outweigh the minus points |
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Post by Bigcatdiary on Aug 21, 2012 6:55:18 GMT
I wonder who decides where air fences finish coming off the turn? After yesterday's tragic events; someone just catching the end of the air fence recently on Sky and Davy Watt hitting the fence hard coming off turn 4 at the EoES; I personally feel they are oten too short I know that riders can get sucked into them but if there is still a chance of a rider straightening up then an extra length of air fence should be there Glad to see that Pearson and Tatum caught up with this eventually (problem being that he missed the airfence said Tatum) after Stuart Robson's nasty spill at Brandon last night (20/8/12) - still say that they are at least a section too short coming off the bends. The plus points of increasing the length of the fence must outweigh the minus points Last nights crash wasnt so much about the lack of air fence but the fact that Szczepaniak totally shafted Robson |
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Post by admin on Aug 21, 2012 7:16:12 GMT
Glad to see that Pearson and Tatum caught up with this eventually (problem being that he missed the airfence said Tatum) after Stuart Robson's nasty spill at Brandon last night (20/8/12) - still say that they are at least a section too short coming off the bends. The plus points of increasing the length of the fence must outweigh the minus points Last nights crash wasnt so much about the lack of air fence but the fact that Szczepaniak totally shafted Robson Indeed, but with impeccable timing I did a H&S course yesterday and know that you've correctly identified the risk but are ignoring what we can do to minimise the resultant damage - that's a course failure Mr bcd  |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2012 9:59:38 GMT
H&S along with completely uncontrolled immigration has been the ruination of the UK.  |
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Post by admin on Aug 21, 2012 10:43:18 GMT
H&S along with completely uncontrolled immigration has been the ruination of the UK. Wrong. It's the people who make up the rules or can't interpret the ones they have or haven't got an ounce of common sense. Your argument is like blaming a dog for wrongdoing when in the vast majority of cases it's the incompetent owner at fault. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2012 11:29:00 GMT
H&S along with completely uncontrolled immigration has been the ruination of the UK. Wrong. It's the people who make up the rules or can't interpret the ones they have or haven't got an ounce of common sense. Your argument is like blaming a dog for wrongdoing when in the vast majority of cases it's the incompetent owner at fault. You copied that out of your course notes didn't you? |
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Post by admin on Aug 21, 2012 13:02:53 GMT
You copied that out of your course notes didn't you? Do keep up. That would have been in the common sense section which had a blank A4 sheet with tbc written in crayon (pencils are sharp! written in brackets) |
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Post by admin on Aug 24, 2015 13:46:01 GMT
I wonder who decides where air fences finish coming off the turn? After yesterday's tragic events; someone just catching the end of the air fence recently on Sky and Davy Watt hitting the fence hard coming off turn 4 at the EoES; I personally feel they are oten too short. I know that riders can get sucked into them but if there is still a chance of a rider straightening up then an extra length of air fence should be there This needs reviewing urgently in view of Lee's tragic crash - have long thought they seem to finish a tad to short coming out of the bends - Adam Shields also had a bad crash at the EoES few years ago but IIRC was he not fortunate enough to come down at the very end of the last section of air fence - a few more feet and who knows how much worse that would have been. Didn't the GPs experiment with some type of saftey barrier that ran all the way round the track - seem to remember Scott Nicholls in particular having a run in with it and I thought that was along a straight Serious thought needs to be given to air fences by ALL tracks in this country now not just Elite ones imho. I just watched the Darcy Ward crash and immediately thought that the air fence finished way too short. I know riders sometimes bounce off the fence when racing but surely an extra 20 metres, at least, coming off the bends is a must for safety? Even if any damage was done when he hit the track, then hitting air fence would have been much better that a solid fence IMHO. Our thoughts must be with Darcy Ward but I wonder if anyone did review the situation? It would seem not or the conclusion was that the air fence was fine as it is? |
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Post by Bigcatdiary on Aug 24, 2015 17:07:17 GMT
This needs reviewing urgently in view of Lee's tragic crash - have long thought they seem to finish a tad to short coming out of the bends - Adam Shields also had a bad crash at the EoES few years ago but IIRC was he not fortunate enough to come down at the very end of the last section of air fence - a few more feet and who knows how much worse that would have been. Didn't the GPs experiment with some type of saftey barrier that ran all the way round the track - seem to remember Scott Nicholls in particular having a run in with it and I thought that was along a straight Serious thought needs to be given to air fences by ALL tracks in this country now not just Elite ones imho. I just watched the Darcy Ward crash and immediately thought that the air fence finished way too short. I know riders sometimes bounce of the fence when racing but surely an extra 20 metres, at least, coming off the bends is a must? Our thoughts must be with Darcy Ward but I wonder if anyone did review the situation? It would seem not or the conclusion was that the air fence was fine as it is? I can remember air fences al the way around the track in a past SWC round and Sam Ermolenko came a purler after touching it going down a straight after being sucked in, that to the best of my knowledge is why they don't have them on straights anymore. |
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Post by admin on Aug 24, 2015 19:28:13 GMT
I just watched the Darcy Ward crash and immediately thought that the air fence finished way too short. I know riders sometimes bounce of the fence when racing but surely an extra 20 metres, at least, coming off the bends is a must? Our thoughts must be with Darcy Ward but I wonder if anyone did review the situation? It would seem not or the conclusion was that the air fence was fine as it is? I can remember air fences al the way around the track in a past SWC round and Sam Ermolenko came a purler after touching it going down a straight after being sucked in, that to the best of my knowledge is why they don't have them on straights anymore. Lukas Dryml's career as a top notch world class rider effectively ended with this crash ( Lukas Dryml 2003 FIM Speedway Grand Prix at Krsko) so I agree that all of the way round is a problem, so just something more coming out of the bends for me. It's not too difficult to work out a cut off point where riders could still hit the fence at speed coming off the turn? |
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Post by davet on Aug 24, 2015 20:20:29 GMT
Seems to me that air fences are effective when contacted at a steep angle, where they act as a cushion and reduce the impact of a hard fence. On the straight, touching the fence at a shallow angle wouldn't hurt that much; it's the resulting loss of control at speed that does the damage. Air fences would make this worse by bringing the bike to a sudden halt. Perhaps what is needed on the straights is something akin to a crash barrier which would straighten the bike out without slowing it. The rider's leg might get in the way though...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2015 7:36:13 GMT
Ward 's crash even if most of the damage was done when he hit the track just proves IMO fences need to be longer coming out of the bend and it has to be worth the cost involved to extend them on bends 2 and 4 immediately. I don't see that the clubs have anything to lose by doing so and probably a lot to gain should similar incidents occur.
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Post by admin on Aug 25, 2015 8:28:52 GMT
Ward 's crash even if most of the damage was done when he hit the track just proves IMO fences need to be longer coming out of the bend and it has to be worth the cost involved to extend them on bends 2 and 4 immediately. I don't see that the clubs have anything to lose by doing so and probably a lot to gain should similar incidents occur. From a fans point of view I agree entirely but I do wonder who decides that air fences end where they do? It would be interesting to know what riders think and whether they'd be happy with a longer air fence? I'm thinking of them getting hooked up with the fence (say handlebars) at the wrong place, at speed and coming to a swift stop or bouncing into oncoming riders? Basically the sport is very dangerous and it's what can be done to help? Is 20 or 30 metres more air fence it? I don't know. More of a concern to me was that neither rider seemed to make a mistake but Ward's bike took off mid corner. This happens all too frequently these days, and the reasons for today's volatile bikes is as much of an issue for me |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2015 14:13:28 GMT
You have also to think of different track shapes and sizes. It would be difficult to form rules that contain standardised installations, when tracks vary so much.
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Post by davet on Aug 25, 2015 16:05:53 GMT
Another 30 metres would take the air fence almost to the starting gate, and would be much too long in my opinion. I've lost count on the number of times Ullrich has bounced off the base of the fence coming out of the last bend and got away with it, but an air fence would have dumped him on the track into the path of the following riders. I think something other than an air fence is needed after the bends.
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Post by admin on Aug 25, 2015 20:08:09 GMT
Another 30 metres would take the air fence almost to the starting gate, and would be much too long in my opinion. I've lost count on the number of times Ullrich has bounced off the base of the fence coming out of the last bend and got away with it, but an air fence would have dumped him on the track into the path of the following riders. I think something other than an air fence is needed after the bends. 30 metres is perhaps a bit extreme but it was just a ballpark figure without much thought. In our case at the EoES I'd say one airbag short of the 15 metre line behind the tapes. Getting tangled up in it is a concern as you say so it needs careful consideration. Perhaps there is a better solution or to have nothing (after all most of us saw more speedway without airbags anyway) is preferable. I don't know? I see that area as a serious risk these days though, and even though it always has been a risk, in these health and safety conscious times such issues are not generally ignored. Having said that, bringing alive a 3 year old thread would suggest that they are ignored or a solid unforgiving fence is seen as the best option? |
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